Wed 18 Dec 1996 11:50
spent some time talking with my ex chem prof gouterman. So I did well on the exam. The exam. not trivial, every curve ball I threw, you caught. It was really quite remarkable.

Kids.
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Wed 18 Dec 1996 04:54
[rebecca.wri]

                           Rebecca-C

    This is a discussion of the events of a relationship in an attempt to understand the significance of the events and the relationship. Where should I begin? How should I organize this discussion? I will start with my present feeling.
    Why would I want to be with anyone? A reasonable explanation of much of human activity is that we like those things which order our environment. I am drawn to be with Rebecca in spite of the fact that my interaction with her does not consistently make me feel more ordered. In fact, much of my interaction with her disturbs my mental order for quite some time. What would I do if it were not for my interaction with her?
    I think I have been curious about a certain kind of experience for a long time. The experience of loving and being loved by another person. Yet I think I have come to realize that loving and being loved by another person is not often achieved at a sustainable level, or rather, loving and being loved can be sustained, but at a much lesser level of involvement than I had hoped for.
    I think I have imagined, for a long time, that two people could focus, intensely, on eachother, and this could constitute the most powerfully meaningful life-experience. This misconception has caused me a great deal of lonsomeness as well as intense experience. The problem was, perhaps, me putting too much expectation of greatness in to this relationship-type experience. What will be my future action in regard to this type of situation?
    In regard to seeing Rebecca. I like to see her sometimes, well, all the time, but sometimes have a more ordering effect than others. I'm guessing the real problem is, a lack of clear direction in what we do. I like to spend time with her. I like to be with her, but for what purpose? How do I know when to see her, when to do something for her, and when to not? When I do see her, how do I know when to leave? Why should I see her at all, and what should we be doing? Should we be working for anything?
    It is a funny thing. I like to be with her most when I am with her alone. There are times when I like very much to be with her and her friends. And there are times when she will talk to her friends and I wish she would just talk to me. Or just be with me. Often times I have to be patient, wating for her to finish with her friends, But if I were alone with her what would I do then? It would be no different if she continues to think of past and present, and maybe going to a movie, or those things she has to do, that would be only a little better than being with her et al.
    What I like best is when she is here and now with me. That is a very nice time.

    Part of the problem is a difference in desire, I very much want her to concentrate on me, concentrating on her, and she likes this less often. Which is good. This allows life to go on, I would likely do nothing, or little else, but concentrate on the other if I had the opportunity, and this is likely a result of my strong desire for such concentration for a long time.
    Part of the problem is that this type of individual-based concentration is very insecure.

--

what is the right way to act? why am I still interested in, why do I take notice of an other woman?

I think I can say it nice to be with her, and I will when I can and when I can't, I won't, but how do I tell what is reasonable? I am fading.

let's see, I could think about sex. There really is not much to think about. I want to have vaginal sex, but this is not practical, and would take considerable effort to make it practical. I expect we can have fun, and will.

It is good to be here and be reminded that I have roots other than there.

I can think about where the relation might go, but I don't see it going anywhere. I could think about whether or not I could have kids, but this is not so much a worthwhile consideration now, since there is no possibility now. Moreover, I think a lot of people have children more based on feeling than rational thought. A lot of people become lovers more based on feeling than rational thought.

Really, I wonder where she should be in terms of priorities, and this I can leave to how I feel. What needs to be explained to you? I could sleep here.

So Rebecca, what do you think? No this isn't so bad. And if you feel like it, we can hang out together when we have the time, because we may as well enjoy our time here, a little, if we give eachother enjoyment.

I don't have any immediate questions now, but If I were with you, I would be asking.

why should I be with anyone? It is nice to be with a one, for a little, do you think? And there are various reasons why. None particularly amazing or surprizing.

What about all the angst my too-great emotional involvement has caused in me? How can I keep this from happening? A behav psych book said we experience stress in relation to how important a thing is to us. So would it be
So it would be well to experience the importance of her when with her and she is with me, and not when I am not with her. I think this can be done.

As always realize that any experience with her is epemeral and transient, will not last. I wish the h key worked better. The deal is any experience with her is more ephemeral and transient than certain other types of experience which do not require her concentrating on me as I concentrate on her.

It is perhaps unreasonable to be able to turn on/off something so important. It is interesting to compare my preoccupation with a woman to a preoccupation with windsurfing, or, even eagle scout, or even school.

I discussed with Rebecca love, and also the nature of the experience, why I was feeling that there was something more to be done, something more, a feeling that this is a most loving, concentrated, time of my life, and there was something more to be done.

I, with her help, came to the possible solution that part of the experience was being certain, or reasonably sure that she understood how good this was and that she feel it too.

Another angst time was related to me wanting more of a concentration involvement than she.

She did ask, "Why me?" and I, "Why anyone?"

Why Rebecca? It is true there may be a more concentrated, vital, enjoying of life person out there who will like to love me as I her, but I don't know this person, and as yet, Rebecca is worth much more to me. I guess, in imagining an ideal, she would also be a writer, a philosopher, and into the silent kind of concentration.

I have experienced that silent kind of mutual concentration, actionlesss, and it was amazing, powerful, yet deeply frightening, because we did nothing active, I did nothing active, except to keep the mind from wandering.

Do I have a problem with this silent,

--
So I asked Dr. Sally Horner about the pill, birth control, and she went on and on. Of course all the effects are not known, but apparently if the pill is taken for five years protection is had against uterine and ovarine cancer, but apprently those are heredetary anyways. If you're a smoker and older, there is a possibility of high blood pressure and blod clots, so She doesn't let smokers over 35 go on the pill. She said the new pills are lower dose, and attempt to follow the natural hormonal cycle better than before. There is a very small chance of infertility being caused, and in women in whom this is caused, it does not matter whether these women take the pill for six months or five years. But, she went on, there is an increased amount of infertility these days anyways, and we are not sure why. It may be related to women waiting longer before having children. More about the pill: she said it's 98% effective, but nothing but abstinence is perfectly effective. She said it's a pretty good thing, and she uses it in women who are about menopause age too and want some form of birth control (I don't know why she mentioned that especially).

I am fine apparently, although they have not the results of the blood work yet. She said I had good low blood pressure. What else. It still is a little funny to talk about you as girlfriend to other people, I have only done so twice really, and to others when that word did not need to be used. My guess is that doesn't matter to you, but maybe you have some feeling about it? For some reason I do. Oh, she wondered how I avoided mono. Did you get mono? I said, "Is kissing how people get it?" and she said yes but also from sharing glasses, and dishes, etc., Age of onset is usually 17 to first year of college. I don't know that many people I know got it. Thought of you and "sanitary."

The other thing we discussed is Jock itch, which, she sees no signs of, but I feel it is not quite dead, waiting to come back, If I'm not careful.

That's about it.

Oh, more about J-I, she said there's a reason it's called that, its from the underwear, and she said that alternating between that type underwear and boxers is good.

More recently I have thought of a few things which may have improved my situation. wearing boxers can be worse or bad when sitting down a lot (as I do), because then leg skin is in contact with scrotal skin (I felt annoyed at using the word, guessing it is because I have so many feelings of unscientific-like experience associated with the use of that word). Moreover I have learned there is a good reason men don't cross their legs, and that is because of how close and warm it makes all that skin between the legs. My guess is when men did not sit down so much, this was less of a problem.
--

Well, I will get back to what I was doing. How are you doing?
--
I have experienced that silent kind of mutual concentration, actionlesss, and it was amazing, powerful, yet deeply frightening, because we did nothing active, I did nothing active, except to keep the mind from wandering.

Do I have a problem with this silent, actionless concentration?

I think I do. This is why I am less into what Gordon is, meditation, consciousness exp, which is like singing the one time song. It may improve his skill on playing with consciousness, but the activity itself produces , well, it is cool he does it, I am less into it though.

I like this activity best, when I am doing it well, because I am then figuring things out, working on producing a written analysis which can be shared with and discussed with others.

My guess is, one of the difficulties I have with just being with you, is, while it can be good for a time, then I begin to consider the other areas of concentration which I want to maintain, and realize I am not keeping them up.

We can now (I like the dark amber-blue color of this lcd screen) return to the question of, why be with another person at all?

At this time I think back to the "Why Rebecca?" question, and realize I wonder, "Why Colin?" I don't really want to wonder, I am just glad in it. I realize there are many ideals she may have which I am not, but she has me now, and not the ideals really. And in the ways in which her ideal goes with my ideal for myself, I am striving to change.

I do wonder, Rebecca, what are the things I might do or be that would make this business better for you. I find it hard to believe I was not a source of stress in your life, and probably not good stress.

I do sort of wish you were here- you might like to look at interesting stuff from the past in this house.

I guess I sort of wish that I had much to read about you- I realize that if I did, as you do of me, It might not be as fantastic. I keep sort of drowsing off right now. I get to wait here till 1:30 to get taken back home by Dad. It is 11 now. I have come here for my physical. It is good to be tired in the way I am tired now.

I do like this much better than reading, Rebecca, as mundane as this might seem.
(maybe I could take cse 143 with you this summer. It would be killer hard for me, but good hard work, if off the path of my own self-actualization. There is a lot to be discussed regarding the nature and possibility of self-actualization.

--
To continue the comparison of Rebecca-C activity and Colin-windsurfing activity or colin-external-goal-structure-accepted-as-own activity.

One of the reasons I felt there was something more to be done with the experience with Rebecca, as I began to discuss before, is that Rebecca is an important part of the experience, what she feels is, or more accurately, what I feel she feels is as a part of the experience as how I feel about the whole thing. I respond dramatically to the littlest differences in her demeanor, it seems. The more thoroughly she appears to me to be enjoying the being together, the more I enjoy the being toghether.

Colin-windsurfing, colin-school, colin-eagle scout activity is different in that the good feeling that resulted in these instances was more centered in me than in the middle between me and another. Yet these activities all have a similarity in that often the experience is heightend when I feel my experience is shared and means something to others, for example being able to windsurf in high wind and waves when others can see me who have not seen such a thing before; doing well in school when others appreciate me as doing well; etc.

It is really good to think of this whole girl-focusing time as like the time when all I obsessed about (mostly) was windsurfing. At that time, I would meet Rebecca's def as a non-needy person perhaps, because I was not making demands on another person to be with her. I wrote about, thought about and lived for windsurfing (perhaps a little like Ilona and skiing/climbing). Just as I have written about, thought about and lived for certain women I would obsess about.

It is interesting to consider activity from this model of obsession. I do sort of remember myself as more concentrated, more directed during that time. More moment focus, and having less glimpses of eternal depression, more constancy, etc.

This could be explained by Csikmentihalyi as an activity with "clear goals, clear feedback," and as a negentropic activity. The clear goals/clear feedback may be conducive to the good type of concentration.

As I briefly mentioned once, we try to do things to ensure the security, continued, of our favored type of concentration. Concentration on an inanimate, in which the feedback and course of action for a given effect (i.e. to have good windsurfing, go to maui, and practice a lot) are clear, like if I fulfill the reqs for eagle scout, I will get the award, is a more secure type of concentration than the one I work with now, in which the effects of my actions are processed not by nature as in windsurfing or by a requirement list, as in eagle scout, but by a complex and unknowable human being.

And moreover what I want from her is not as simple as me wanting to be an eagle scout. I don't know what it is I want from her exactly. It is perhaps the right combination of the right kind of interactions with her.

Oh, Rebecca, the house here is sweater heaven. There are many very nice old sweaters I left here which I did not want once. They are very nice. I don't have to go shopping! love, Colin.

It is hard to say whether people develop from the inanimate oriented type activity to the intimate interaction type activity. Dana surprised me recently by saying, nothing is quite so good as you think it will be, and some other cool things. I don't think people develop from one way or another. The area of focus can not be used to determine development, probably only the type and level of focus.

It is good. I almost feel I have exposed enough questions to stop and think for a while. There is a lot of art in this Kaiser Permanente building. It is nice.

It is also interesting to think about whether I could have achieved this relative contentness and movement away from unstable concentration orientation (obsessing on the ideal love interaction) without having Rebecca love me, rather, accept me as she has. Because there are many others who have similar unhappy sort of orientations.

It is also good to have this time away from you, I guess, Rebecca, to be able to work with the impression of the sum of our experience without having it change any more from further interaction. I can also imagine that a break from me would be nice.

So now, I feel relatively secure in loving and being loved, and I have these projects to work on, and I am in a reasonably content part of my  life. i love you Rebecca.

What can change this or cause it to be changed? How can I get here? Just yesterday night, I think, I was thinking, accept the dark empty space around you, because when everything else goes I will have the dark, empty space around me. How dependent is my concentration now on things I cannot control, or on things I cannot be certain of the effect of my actions. I am dependent on success in school, and being able to percieve for myself a constant place there.  Am I dependent on Rebecca continuing to like me, and having time to be with me, and having her to think about? Not so much, I think, but I am. I am perhaps most dependent of all on this computer on which I write. Because writing on this computer I feel an instant connection with so many people.

I am dependent, I think, on having Rebecca read this, and having her to talk to about this. And in other things, I am dependent on having other people to work with on the problems I work on, and I am dependent on feeling I am able to give others things of worth to think about.

I am dependent on feeling I have an affect, a presence, an existence which is noticed and appreciated by other people. This gives me satisfaction, why am I so dependent on these externalities, are there other ways to be?

An important thing to remember is the variablity of our percieved needs as I discussed in my first paper, and as Maslow discusses. If I feel content and that I have certain needs which I am able to fulfill, It is because I do not have certain other needs.

There are, I think ways of being less dependent, but there is little point in trying to be independent simply to be independent. that could even be bad.

What is the strong person, then? The strong person may be dependent now, but in the event that something she is dependent on now, fails, she has enough faith that life will continue to be good and worthwhile without that source of good feelings. This means that if I were to no longer have Rebecca to be with, I would not be able to go on quite happily, because I believe my interaction with her is so rare. But at the same time I might be stronger than another because I have found a kind of work which I enjoy, apart from the people involved in the work.

I would very much miss the kind of interaction I can get from being with her, but I think I could maintain myself on the other, work-type, interaction.

I'm guessing this is about it. Still could talk more about sex and families. But is there really any need to?

Fromm writes about a need for the mother of a child in motherly love to have a true joy for living. I think for people to have children, those people must know that life is enjoyable and worth living, and express it in their every action. I percieve that most people who have children don't (the getting to the level of a skill where it is not in conscious thought, as in typing) think about the moralness of having children if their own life sucks. If I thought these following things, I suppose I could have children:

1- having children would be a beautiful and worthwhile experience for me and others involved
2- being a child and living and growing up would be a beautiful and worthwhile experience for the child herself.

I don't think either of these two thoughts, or the possibility of having children will be the case for me anytime soon.

The difficulty I am working on now is how to help living and growing up be beautiful for myself and others. That is what all this is about.

This is pretty good.
About sex. Well, that was a funny, fun conversation we were having. It is, and I think will always be tough to not want very much to have vaginal sex when I am with you so close. I have a different anatomy than a lesbian. Consider the homosexual. That is the motivation and will always be, I think, In times like those, and right now even, if I think about it and am not bothered by other stuff. A lot of time (perhaps I'm kidding myself) just a warmness and a closeness is enough, but I do always want more. I did read the directions on the condoms, and their use is rather unsimple, and requires a certain ritual, not unlike stopping to try to wipe off sheets when I come without my pants on. If we get to it, their use could be interesting, but not the thing. It matters to me, and I think I hope that some day, with you, I can, freely, and the only way such a thing would be possible is thanks to the pill, and a focus on your rhythm, and blood tests for the diseases. I have the feeling this would be not a huge increase in pleasure for you for a significant bit of trouble, and so you are in no hurry, understandably, and that's fine, and probably a good idea.

Supposing there were no technology, I think I could accept that we would never have vaginal sex until we wanted children. Or it could be, "we" would have children because of the male's desire for vaginal sex. I was thinking the male dominated society would never had allowed (If they did) progress towards women's liberation (in thought and in fact) if it had not been for birth control or abortions which would allow the male to have vaginal sex without consequence of having to care for children. How close to a valid argument could this be? I think the woman's situation would have changed still, but more slowly. I don't think that is even a productive thing to think about. It is perhaps only another way of stating the desire for vaginal sex.

(I'm hearing the march of the sugar plum faries or whatever it is, is that from the nutcracker? It would be good to see with you.) The music here isn't bad. Muzac has improved.

It is also interesting to consider Jackin's idea, that any sexual motivation is restimulation (bad) unless you rationally decide to be sexual. I don't think this works well in this situation. Consider food, freely available. We might, following jackins, say that it is bad to feel a motivation to eat, unless we rationally decide to eat. It makes more sense to say that it may be bad to eat unless we rationally decide to eat. We may feel the desire to eat, and then not eat. . . but we still want to eat?

That is not true for me actually. When I decide I don't want to eat, I feel no motivation to eat, and I rationally decide to eat when I non-rationally feel like eating.

Oh, let's consider oral sex, I was powerfully motivated to feel what it might be like, because I had the opportunity. I do think it could be pretty good with practice, like me with you maybe? I think vaginal sex, oh, never mind, BTW, it looks like I should get non-lubricated condoms for that, but who knows (oh, the other problem with birth control is that it costs money) I was just thinking of Kristin's sister who got the Depro Provera shot or whatever it's called, and she did get pregnant, maybe because the sister and sister's boyfriend started too early (this was when her sister was still in highschool). This whole sex thing is and can be a huge problem. But its also very cool

I think I will always be motivated to want it when I percieve I am close to the possiblity of it. If it were so freely available, it is likely it could be less meaningful than now, like eating is less meaningful when there is plenty of food. But food and sex are not the same. Perhaps the way they give pleasure is similar however.

Let us assume

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