Sun 18 Aug 1996 21:00
Communication.
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Sun 18 Aug 1996 16:00
later
is there a such thing as love? Why do I want to be with these people and tell them these things and share their life and create experience with them.

Dear Lise, will you ever be rowing again,     , I miss you.

I don't want to only know that these people exist, I want to be with them. to create experience with them, Really to play with them like we were two or more kids. Do you play anymore. I went a little far grilling Kristen, but she stayed. Not recipricosity,

Oh, dear, my dream was about Moore and daughter, and sailing with them, and then kids shooting play arrows, and seeing my sister's school, and two acts of aggression against smaller male chubby kids, one of whom I quit agressing because he did a better job, an ugly sailsman, and Moore's daughter, who somehow, I went throught the house and stopped at her painting and poem and spoke in frence of She the girl in the village, then she becomeing Erin and telling me who it meant, and you know, dreams

Not recipricosity of question, but perhaps another way, in a different way, and so. Hilary's daughter and as she held her standing.

Let us pretend that there is a woman whom I get to see every day, part of the day, whom I appreciate very much and enjoy being with her. Let's assume she likes to be with me, and already we are together a fair amount, our days before we meet are in excitment or contemplation of the other, and when we say goodbye, it is "I love you" we mean.

And I tell her it is so good to be with her, she is such a beautiful person, and she says, somehow, I like to be with you too. All this time we have been together with other people.

Is there any reason to do anything more. Pretend she is married, or other. We see eachother every day, except maybe the weekends, for most of the day. We are clear that we love and appreciate appreciation. And we stay apart outside.

It could  be she likes to run in the mornings, talk philosophy, and play a little soccer, it could happen that she hates to eat in restaurants when she could eat her own food, and she buys food she doesn't need to cook. It could be she does not watch television, drink coffee, go to movies, but spends her time thinking, maybe on occasion reading, and appreciating.

These similarities help. Never mind the rather small chance of such a female or male existing, and never mind that It could really be terrible to spend so much time to someone so similar in some ways to myself. But would it be? maybe she is a dancer or an artist or an atmospheric sciences PhD.

mm. It might seem natural that we should spend more time together, but that is the societal expectation. Quiet possibly we could be quiet happy simply being able to see eachother every day, and talk about meaning filled or meaningless on the surface things. And then to go spend evenings alone.

This is of course completely ignoring the question of her sex. I am attracted to her because, in part, because she is female. I seek actively to know her more, I talk to her, when she is around I feel, when she is not around I think of her to. Now Scott is a cool guy, a beautiful guy too, he is societally in, and I like to row with him, even if he may be out of practice, I can talk to him, we could get deeper, but who goes there unless bored with the surface? Brie cheese like a kiss after kissing my water-bottle. But when he leaves, I don't hold my breath until he comes back, I don't seek him out or draw him out or actively pursue. But with a woman, maybe I do.

It could just be a societal thing, conditioned since before I was born. It could be part of my animal nature, an instinct coded in genes. It could be a sort of polar attraction, like I am curious about Adar, for her differences, I am curious about the woman, for her differences, or more likely, like I am curious about the eastern for their different philosophy, but that is something I can actively learn about . What is a woman, what is a man.

I will say it is conditioned, I will say it is genetic, I will say sex may be a part of it, but we were just getting to be together with eachother only.

I suppose I could ask mollie about her appreciation of it. How much is it sexual, what did sex do to the interaction, is she ever attracted, not sexually to females like males. What happend when she had or became pregnant with Chloey, How did her relationship change, is she any more attracted to others like she was Jason at first. What is her separation now? What of Jason, She has Chloey, and he should to, but could he ever, as much? I don't think you are the perfect control Mollie.

But can anyone ever logically decide to have a child? What are people saying, what are people expressing when they have children? Are they thinking or feeling? Or is it something that happens. Why does she want to have a child? What is the feeling. They must be aware of the misery of their existence, or perhaps there is no misery, and I am the only inexorably miserable person, or it could be that people who have had children were not often miserable. It could also be that they thought that by the time their kid went out on their own, or by the time daughter became capable of realizing the great meaninglessness of life, and eternal separation, that she would be so prepared to love and to appreciate, she would be such a radical, that she would change everyone she knew. It could be these people did not feel the meaninglessness of life. And thought their was meaning and enjoyment to conciousness. It could be that two people or more, got bored, or excited, or wanted something to do with the rest of life, so they have kids. It could be they need help on the farm. It could be they did not have birth control, but wanted sexual intercourse. This is, of course, not a choice I have.

At any rate, it is clearly something that happens after being alone with another person for a while, and in some cases, reasonably sure that she will be around in your life for a while. And I have not got there yet.

There is always a desire for security, and once I find a person whom I love to be with it is the security of always being able to be with her, though this is an impossible thing.

Let us forget the security because it is unreal, imposed. It is like the concept of rights.

So we want to be with eachother more. That seems fine. We meet after our time to go for a walk and we walk along and we sit there, and then we go home alone. There is always, and insecurity and that makes our love all the more vital -  if a child then, the love is not a given and more people are entangled. The insecurity is complicated.

What of the physical touch, what of the sexual also. I mean, isn't it cool that being male and female there is this physical interaction possible also? Or is that it primarily, it cannot be not at this late evolution. I don't want the sex if it means you will slowly fade away or be gone tomorrow. I want to know you and to feel that I can help you be as you want to be some way.

This is the great problem. Sara could help me by being with me and listening to me, but how could I help her?

And now, could I ever help a woman by being with her and listening to her?

And what of spending a lot of time together. Could I ever be with another person as much as Carolynn maybe with David, but how much, really are they together? Do they have any time alone? I don't want to go on any vacations, I don't want to see as many plays, I want to stay here and work on these Ideas, I want to help you with yours and collaborate. We can get up each morning and run row or swim, then play as we would, then work.

We have to be separate though. I thought that if you love a person you could be with her all the time. But that actually seems maybe repulsive. It is an impossiblity anyways.

That doesn't quiet this strangeness of reproduction, this violates the illusive peaceability of the home. I don't think it is so illusive, perhaps only momentary. It is all I know. And I suggest a world like Skinner's Walden II.

Oh well, it is beyond my comprehension, marriage and children are, living with another person is. Sleeping in the same bed is more like it, It would take a few weeks for me to calm down and get any sleep. In the meantime, we'd both be grumpy and get enough of eachother, say- maybe, but if done right,  I don't think so.

But what does this mean. This means that I will tell Kristen and Lise how I feel, if no more opportunity presents itself. Kristen wil probably stay in present, and Lise will probably fade. I will say, and I will say, I cannot imagine running 10 miles with you Lise, if you give me the opportunity, I will try it and see what if anything happens, I think we would only keep running, if you run too fast to talk. I can't imagine walking with you Lise, what would we say. I cannot imagine walking or sitting or doing anything with Kristen, though maybe a short run. Apparently these things develop. Illusions Suck. Societally conditioned behavior sucks, we perpetuate our own problems. Vis a Vis. Illusions suck.

Apparently these things develop over years, and there are no more years for these times and relations to develop. Barring the small town, there is only the short date, and strange expectations. Tear your self apart. Tear your society apart. And as you live create yourself.

So this means it is only the women I see for years and it is only the women who I am attracted to as they are interested in me and god knows why. Well, why then am I interested in them, Why Adar, difference independant, separate fighting mind, the sight of craziness. Why Dahvihya, same. Why Lise? I don't know, she is so different, I don't know anyone like her, and there is an insanity there, I don't know how she will show it scream it, but I want to know what it is. Why Kristen? She's insane for sure, and shows it everyday, she loves and shows it everyday. Now Molly- I don't know. Acceptance, interests, she is the one person who asks questions of me, who demonstrably on occ

Just met jerry a guy who reads lips, born deaf, around age 14 went through the alphabet with a piece of paper in front of mouth to see how much air came out with each letter. Not all deaf people are so lucky to learn. You should try, go around with earplugs. Maybe I will I said, trying not to smile too much as it might seem/be phony, but my earplugs don't block a voice too well, I would have to get the best earplugs or wear those monster ear muffs like my dad used to have. Most amazing was when I told him my name a few times, and then spelled it out, and he said it as it should be said. I am afraid he will turn away before I am able to ask him his name.

Acceptance interestes, she is the one person who asks questions of me, and I feel I should ask her more. With most everyone else, I interrogate them. Stephanie is another good one, because she talks to me and I love to listen to her. And I think it is because she speaks of herself, Mollie, you spoke of Jason, and that was not the most exciting time, I think It was simply that you called, and then when I could ask you, and when you told Jason laughed at Chloe you said. With denise, it is talking about other people when you lose me, it is only when you speak of the present or yourself that you are here. I don't know why. Now with Sara it was that she would listen to me, and that I could ask her for a while things I had never been able to ask before. It was nothing else, and then she had no craziness. She has no expressible to me craziness.

I won't ask mollie these questions, I just want to hear her talk, like Stephanie, most of all, just to hear her speak, I get enough of myself.

That is the simplest thing, I want to be around you because I want to see you and hear you Kristen. You don't just talk, you also look, your eyes, I don't know what you are and I don't know what you think, so you treat me like a kid, like I was a puppy or 5 years old, so, It is your joking, your playing. The playing is what we should always do. No doubt you can be serious, and what are you like alone.

So these are some of the people and what do I hope to get from them by knowing them? I used to think we were going to move off to the forest. Now I know I cannot leave. It is the security thing, and until I can give up my aversion to it, such a growing old together is not justifiable. I need the security of community, Like the homless person does not give up her ties, else she commits herself. So am I fine with this security of community, that I would not give up, but I cannot accept the devotion to another individual, that devotion is not secure it is insecure.

What do I hope to get from them by knowing them, the sweetness of your mouth. The heat off the black roof. Well go on, these people are the most significant, but I don't know what to make of th

Well, thinking gets me no where I was about to fall asleep. Thinking of April now. It would seem I simply want to be with with these women. Like when I was with molly and chloey, just sitting there watching chloey scrapeing the floor of the shed with various garden tools. Or If Sara had wanted to stay there, in the grass, by that deserted nuclear powerplant, and so on. It would appear, that for some strange reason, women are an aid to meditation, how sick. We would I imagine just lay there by that lighthouse on the hill from afternoon till after sunset, and see the stars, and then go on home as the sun rose, slowly, crying together. Yes what a wonderful time.

That, of course is not the image that has been sold. That, of course is not the image the woman buys. Well I ask you all, what it is you hope to get from being with another person. The truth is, there is nothing you can get, I don't know what you can give really, you can only be together, and share in the feeling of living. The feeling of living is the immensity that Kant speaks of, so I hear, but unlike I have heard he says, there is no dignity in realizing our lack of comprehension, or our comprehension that we can ask, but not comprehend, but we can share this feeling, and express it to eachother and never hide it in created religions or sciences. Or philosophies.

I suppose if we get tired of simply sitting on that hill in the dry grass, looking off at other hills, I suppose if we get tired of simply working in the artichoke fields, we may have a little unprotected sex, you know, I wonder how those pills mess you up, I think they must somehow, if it is just in the mental act of taking them. Am I a person who would never use birth control because somehow, it does not seem right?

Am I a person who would ignore the effects of technology as somehow wrong? Would I ignore the  that our evolution is no longer nature's, but that of the creation of another organism? And where do I fit? Can she continue to research the weather, in my world? Could I ever be an engineer in my world? Or do we all have to be the philosopher?

How can I not look down upon the one who has not asked all the questions,  though I know there is not much from asking.

And so another clueless being is brought into this world, with only a little instinct and a flood of socialization to act on. And she is as crazy as the rest. I do not feel nihilism, it seems I think it though, you know.

Well if the org (a scary scientology word, but I mean organism) evolves. Is it possible, could I concieve, that I am not as free as my child? Quite possible, because so many around me, in fact all around me are chained. Quite possibly, because I was not born free, i was born a citizen of  this country, I was born into an english speaking family, with a protestant mother, two cars and a house, in a well established, consumer-oriented society. But how can the org evolve without consumerism? I expect it can, just as its conciousness would have to evolve for it to become that way. So more kids look for happiness, less for career. Maybe we are evolving, as we catch up to parts of the non-industrialized, parts of the non-industrialized follow in our wake.

So suppose we go to a more free existence, and a loss of consumerism. What will the overly free individual be like? Will the people get sick of nirvana, and rasa, and the highest energy level? Well, there is a balance you see, let me study the extremes, as it is the extremes who cause the change.

So then, what do you make of the disillusionment with specialization. To make me believe that you would have to show me that the population as related to college aged students going after phD's and Masters is going down.

Or you could just say, I am dissolusioned with learning chemistry to the final degree and specializing in the knowlede of this molecule, because it no longer intrigues me. Well then you would have to say that all who specialize are hypocrites, and misled by societal images to the point where she is able to enjoy her engineering work.

My perception is a biased one, hoplessly clouded from my own perspective. They say maturity is being able to see life as another person sees it, but I do not know what that is.

She says, she loves Civil Engineering. I say, I love her. She says she loves it because. And do not think too much because then your coherency dissappears. You effervesce. But how can a person not think? How can a person not question without feeling something somehow is wrong, that something somehow, she is useless.

Because of the people around her. If the people around me cared only about engineering, no doubt, I would too. It is the other people that give the meaningless significance, that is my theory anyways. She is an engineer because the people she loves are engineers, because she loves herself as an engineer, and I love her as an engineer, and so, she will specialize.

And yet we are hoplessly different. Get me out of here, and now to Communication and Aesthetics, though work, copyright, and digital libraries are.

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